And what is it you propose we "do about illegal immigrants?" I'm curious to hear why this is even an issue and why only this country's sovereignty is questioned. This is a simple issue, do whatever is necessary to secure our borders (you'd have to be an extremist to disagree with that) and impose consequences on those who BREAK THE LAW.
This would be much less of a problem if we stopped adjusting our culture to immigrants rather than the other way around, which is how it was when this country was blooming. Obey our laws, learn english, and work really hard and you'll be fine here. I feel terrible for those waiting for months and even years to get into the US the legal way.

Turning this issue into a "law and order" issue is a complete red herring, and shows the actual motivation behind the opposition to this bill. What this bill's opponents have done is demonize illegal immigrants and convince people that they're "criminals" rather than human beings. This isn't surprising -- the vast majority of the people fighting this bill are xenophobes who truly believe that people from outside America are "less" than human.

The fact is that the vast majority of these immigrants are, plain and simple, trying to find a better life for themselves and their family. Is that criminal? Not in my view, and not in the view of the vast majority of our ancestors who came to this country for the exact same reason.

Steve, people like yourself are the problem here. You stand up on your transparent moral soap-box with an inflated sense of righteousness that is completely misdirected. You refer to them as "illegal immigrants" then in the same sentence deny the criminality of the act. The sympathy here should be directed at those who abide the law and the process required to enter the country legally. Your preaching implies that our border may as well be open. and of course since people such as yourself never offer solutions, it has to be assumed. Drop the race-baiting, drop the tired same lines that are not at the heart of this issue. It's a matter of our preserved sovereignty and american culture. I hope they find a way here and succeed...legally.

Yay for LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!
Another one bites the dust.

Ah, yes, race-baiting. The new word that the right likes to throw to pretend that its policies aren't the ones that are actually race-based.

How can you pretend that I'm the one basing my position on race here when you're the one talking about not "adjusting our culture to immigrants"?

That's the line right there that gives you away. It's the same line that white supremacists have been using for decades. The "sacredness" of our white, American culture. Go check out some David Duke speeches over the years -- it's word for word.

And while we're at it, try not to put words in my mouth and mischaracterize what I said. Nowhere did I say that we should open our borders. What I'm saying is that the discourse over this issue needs to be about the people involved and the best way to safely incorporate them into our country. Unfortunately, most of the opposition to this bill wasn't based on any discussion of that issue, but instead became an "us against them" issue where illegal immigrants, and in fact all immigrants, became a "them" to keep out of "our" country.

This is why I am avoiding political discourse more and more. It's so dumbed down by the far left and far right in this country that I feel like I am talking to a 4th grader.
Rather than running through an itemized list of how ignorant your points are, I'll just ask: do you have any idea what race/religion I or my parents are? Of course you don't and the reason is that it's irrelevant, but, you guys can't grasp that point and inject your false sense of righteousness into every issue possible, via the race/poor/gender/sexual preference/religious tolerance diatribe. This shouldnt have to be said, but whether someone coming here is south american, eastern european, or from mars, the onus has to be on them to adjust to this country, not the other way around. Just as it would be if I were moving to France. Of course this is assuming they came here legally.

I don't particularly care what race/ethnicity/etc. you are. I disagree with your position and your clearly stated reasoning behind your position.

Feel free to blame the left/right dichotomy for the state of political discourse today. I took your statements at face value. You, on the other hand, put words into my mouth and made personal attacks on me. ("Steve, people like yourself are the problem here." "Rather than running through an itemized list of how ignorant your points are...")

I've heard a lot of noise from you today, Telex, but the only real substance I've gotten from you is your repeated intonation of the position that our culture shouldn't have to "adjust" to outside immigrants.

What's noticeable about this point, which you've now made twice, is that it has NOTHING TO DO with whether the immigrants involved are legal or not. A legal immigrant can easily come to this country and refuse to speak English, and refuse to "adjust" to what you think American culture should be.

So it's clear that your issue here is not, as I first pointed out, whether the immigration is legal or not. The law and order issue is a red herring. You've made clear that your real concern is "protecting" American culture from outsiders. Call it whatever you want, but I'll call it closeminded xenophobia.

You have to revise your opinion. Repeating this nuttery misses your point. Give us proofs. Not just with words, but with deeds.